How Kirk Fackre is navigating the future of B2B sales
Executive Summary:
Referrals aren’t converting like they used to. AI promises more than it delivers. And the line between sales and marketing has blurred so much that it’s nearly gone. In this episode of The Chat, Kirk Fackre, VP of Sales at iCorps, offers a brutally honest look at what’s really going on in B2B revenue – and what leaders need to do next.
Referrals Aren’t Enough Anymore
Kirk’s business has thrived for years off referrals. But that channel is no longer enough.
What used to be warm introductions are now cold evaluations. Buyers show up already halfway down the funnel – armed with competitive analysis, reviews, and a clear sense of what they’re looking for.
“Even with referrals, we’re not skipping the buying process anymore. They come in educated and cautious.”
It’s not that referrals don’t work. It’s that they no longer guarantee conversion.
They need to be paired with brand trust, content that speaks directly to pain points, and a seamless buyer experience. Otherwise, you lose to whoever follows up first – and with more clarity.
The Referral Trap
Why aren’t referrals converting like they used to?
Because today’s buyers do their own research, even after a warm referral. You’re no longer the only vendor in the conversation.
Should we stop focusing on referrals?
Not at all – but you should stop depending on them. Referrals need to be reinforced by a strong inbound presence and outbound activity.
How can we improve referral conversion?
Speed matters. Friction kills deals. Make it easier to connect, respond quickly, and personalize the experience once they arrive.
Sales and Marketing Are Colliding
What happens when marketing starts doing SDR work?
At iCorps, Kirk’s marketing team isn’t just building content – they’re running account-based outreach, hiring outsourced BDRs, and launching outbound sequences. The sales-marketing boundary isn’t just blurring – it’s vanishing.
“They’re using tools that I used to only see on the sales side. The roles are overlapping now.”
This crossover can be powerful – but also chaotic. Without alignment on messaging, timing, and ownership, it risks confusing both teams and buyers.
In modern B2B GTM, success means creating one cohesive revenue function – not two departments pointing fingers.
Sales-Marketing Alignment
Should marketing run outbound campaigns?
If they’re equipped to do it well – yes. But coordination with sales is essential to avoid duplication or mixed messaging.
How do we align sales and marketing better?
Use shared dashboards, co-build ICPs, and agree on definitions like MQL and SQL. Weekly syncs and shared KPIs go a long way.
What’s the risk if we don’t align them?
You’ll waste budget, confuse buyers, and kill deals by delivering inconsistent experiences.
AI Isn’t Personalization
A few years ago, Kirk piloted an AI-powered outbound tool. The promise? Fully automated, personalized prospecting at scale.
The reality? Messages that looked like every other message in his buyers’ inboxes.
“It was customization, not personalization. The difference is night and day.”
AI can speed things up, but it rarely adds real insight or emotion. And once everyone starts using the same tools, differentiation disappears.
Ironically, what’s working now for Kirk is old-school: handwritten letters, real conversations, and deeply researched outreach. Why? Because no AI can replicate sincerity – at least not yet.
AI and Sales Outreach
Can AI replace SDRs?
AI can support SDRs, but replacing them leads to shallow, impersonal engagement.
What’s the difference between customization and personalization?
Customization is data-slotting (“Hi {Name}”). Personalization is human relevance – knowing what matters and showing you care.
Should I invest in AI tools for prospecting?
Use AI to enhance your reps – not replace them. Let humans lead the relationship.
Remove Friction or Lose Deals
Buyers don’t want to fill out forms, wait two days for a call, and then explain themselves again to an SDR.
They want clarity. Fast.
Kirk’s team sees this firsthand. While they get intent data via HubSpot, it’s not real-time. Which means high-intent moments often slip through the cracks.
“The intent data is useful – but if we’re not responding immediately, we’re missing opportunities.”
The answer? Make it easy to talk. Whether it’s chat, instant booking, or a direct path to a rep, removing friction wins business.
Reducing Funnel Friction
What is funnel friction?
Anything that slows or complicates a buyer’s journey – like forms, slow responses, or unnecessary steps.
What’s the fastest way to improve conversion?
Respond to inbound intent immediately. Live chat and instant booking tools are game changers.
Should AEs book their own meetings?
In many cases – yes. Especially for high-intent leads. Fewer handoffs mean fewer drop-offs.
The Founder Bottleneck Is Real
Kirk didn’t hold back when we talked about internal change.
“You can only go so far when the founder is your boss and he’s been doing it the same way for 30 years.”
That quote will resonate with anyone working inside mature, founder-led businesses. Success breeds inertia. And even when everyone knows change is needed, getting there can feel political.
Kirk’s strategy is patient. Build trust. Show results. Don’t fight the whole system – just prove a better way, one step at a time.
Driving Change Internally
Why is change hard in founder-led companies?
Because long-term success creates habits and assumptions that are tough to challenge.
How can sales leaders influence change?
Lead with evidence, not opinion. Show results, and make change feel safe – not like rebellion.
What if leadership resists every change?
Find small wins. Build internal allies. And stay outcome-focused, not personal.
What Sales Leaders Need to Hear in 2025
Kirk’s insights boil down to a simple truth: sales haven’t changed – buyers have.
They do more research. They trust less. They expect more. And they move on quickly if you’re slow, vague, or sound like a robot.
To keep up, your strategy must change:
- Referrals alone won’t save you
- AI won’t do the hard work for you
- Sales and marketing must act as one team
- Friction needs to be eliminated everywhere
- And trust must be built faster and more authentically than ever
Everything Buyers Are Searching For Right Now
Why are B2B referrals not working anymore?
Because buyers now evaluate multiple vendors, even when referred. They’re less loyal to sources and more loyal to outcomes.
How do I make my AI outbound more effective?
Use AI to accelerate research or draft starting points – but let humans finish the message. Real relevance always beats automation.
What is the best structure for B2B sales teams in 2025?
Cohesive. Marketing, sales, and even customer success must operate as a single revenue unit – not siloed functions.
Should I replace my SDRs with AI?
No. Use AI to support SDRs with data, insights, and time-saving tasks – but the relationship needs a human face.
What’s the role of live chat in modern sales?
It’s your gateway to real-time buyer intent. Used well, it can double website pipeline conversion.
How do I overcome resistance to GTM change?
Start small. Build evidence. Avoid confrontation. Change happens faster when it feels safe and successful.
Get in touch with – Kirk Fackre
