The Chat - Exit Ready with Justin Bunt

Episode Overview:

In this episode of The Chat, host Terry Wilson sits down with Justin Bunt, a business exit specialist with MMJ Business Sales and Acquisitions. With over 20 years of experience across industries like digital marketing and corporate catering, Justin has helped countless business owners prepare for successful exits. They discuss key strategies for selling a business, common mistakes owners make, and how to maximize exit value.

Key Takeaways:

1. The Reality of Selling a Business

• Selling a business takes time–  The average time to sell is around nine months, and only one in three businesses actually sell.
• Biggest misconception– Many business owners overestimate their business’s worth and underestimate the complexity of the sales process.
• Market timing matters– Economic cycles and industry trends heavily impact valuations and buyer demand.

2. What Makes a Business Sellable?

• Pricing correctly– The biggest reason businesses don’t sell is an unrealistic price expectation from the owner.
• Owner dependency– If the business relies too much on the owner, it’s harder to sell. The less involved the owner is in daily operations, the more valuable the business
• Financial clarity– Buyers and their accountants will scrutinize three years of financials, so everything must be clean, accurate, and verifiable.
• Lease security– If a business is operating from a leased location, there should be a 5-10-year lease tenure to attract buyers.
• Contracts and approvals- Ensuring the business has solid contracts with customers and suppliers and all necessary permits and approvals avoids last-minute deal-breakers.

3. Preparing for a Successful Business Exit

• Start planning at least 2-3 years in advance.
• Ensure the business can run without you– Implement systems, processes, and a strong management team.
• Get your financials in order– Work with a strategic accountant, not just a bookkeeper.
• Keep growing the business– A downward trend in revenue before selling makes a sale harder.
• Don’t use your family lawyer– Find a specialist business transaction lawyer who understands deal-making, not just risk management.

4. Current Market Trends in Business Sales

• High-demand industries:
  • Childcare and laundromats are hot industries with high buyer demand.
  • Industrial businesses and commercial properties with freehold ownership are also attractive to buyers.

• Who’s buying?
  • Strategic buyers– Companies acquiring complementary businesses for expansion.
  • Investor buyers– Investors looking for well-managed businesses with a 40% return on investment (ROI).
  • Owner-operator buyers– Individuals looking for “buying a job” businesses, though demand in this segment has slowed.

5. The Ideal Business Sale Timing

• The best time to sell is when the business is growing and profitable, not when you’re desperate to exit.
• Businesses with clear financials, systems, and management teams in place sell faster and for higher valuations.
• If the market is slow, consider creative deal structures like vendor financing or phased buyouts rather than shutting down.

6. Business Exit Success Stories & Lessons Learned

• The Big Merino Gift Shop Sale- Overcoming a massive inventory challenge to successfully sell an iconic business.
• Bakeries with Different Outcomes– One bakery had $5M in revenue but poor financial visibility, while a smaller one had clear financial and sold quickly with buyer financing approval.
• The Importance of Readiness– The best sales happen when business owners are always exit-ready, even if they aren’t actively looking to sell.

Resources & Links Mentioned:

Justin Bunt’s Contact Info:

📧 Email: justin.bunt@mmj.com.au
🔗 LinkedIn: Justin Bunt on LinkedIn

Recommended Reading:

Exit DNA by Mac Lackey – A guide to preparing businesses for successful exits.

Final Thoughts:

🔹 “Always have your business as ready to sell as possible. A lot of the things that make your business saleable will also make it run better and make you happier as an owner.” – Justin Bunt

If you’re thinking about selling your business—or just want to build a better, more valuable company—start preparing today.

The Chat – Justin Bunt

00:00-

Welcome to “The Chat”, where we take you behind the inbound scenes of some of the world’s fastest growing companies. For the past nine years as Chatmetrics, we’ve had an exclusive inside view of how these industry leaders are revolutionizing inbound marketing and sales across diverse sectors. Each week we bring you conversations with top

00:31-

minds in marketing and sales, sharing insider secrets and strategies that drive inbound success.

00:39-

Join us on “The Chat”, your front row seat to the future of inbound.

00:51- Terry: 

Today on the chat, we have a fantastic guest. He’s an absolute expert when it comes to helping business owners achieve successful exits. Joining us is Justin Bunt, a business exit specialist with MMJ Business Sales and Acquisitions.

01:06- Terry:

Justin has helped countless business owners not only prepare their business for sale but also maximize their exit outcomes. With over two decades of experience across various industries, everything from digital marketing to corporate catering, Justin brings a wealth of knowledge about what makes a business truly saleable and how to navigate the often complex process of selling.

01:27- Terry:

He’s Illawarra and Southern Sydney business community, appraises over 200 businesses each year. And today he’s here to share some of that wisdom with us. Whether you’re an entrepreneur looking to sell or just someone thinking about the future of your business, this episode’s for you. Justin, welcome to the chat.

01:44- Justin: 

Thanks Terry. Great to be on this yet. Really happy to be here.

01:48- Terry: 

Look, um, the chat really is predominantly about sales and marketing. And I guess the, the exit of any business is potentially the ultimate conversation. Uh, but before we get into that in detail, what are, what’s some of the major challenges? You’ve had a broad range of experiences across businesses. You’ve been a founder yourself.

02:05- Terry: 

What’s been some of the major challenges or struggles you’ve had with growing a business?

02:10- Justin: 

02:10 Terry: 

Um,

02:11- Justin: 

Good question. so my first business was a corporate catering business that you mentioned. that was definitely a startup. We bootstrapped that. It started as that wicked sandwich shop in a little suburb of Sydney. And we basically struggled through that first one to two year period where we were working second jobs just to pay the rent. we found the best way to get customers then was to go knocking on doors. So we used to go around the local businesses and take out trays of food, and just say hello and get to meet people that way. And we didn’t actually know that there was such a thing as catering. We were just taking our sandwiches around.

02:42- Justin: 

They’re actually like one foot long subs before the subway was in Australia. went door knocking, met the local business community. They started saying, can we get this on a platter? So we were like, sure. And then the catering business began and became probably Sydney’s biggest corporate caterer I’d say by the time we, we sold that in, oh gee, back in 2000.

03:01- Justin: 

and then I worked with the owners that bought that to keep growing to another level with them. So we’ve definitely learned from that initial door knocking phase. By the early 2000s, we were definitely switching to more of, an online marketing base to grow the business into businesses throughout Sydney.

03:16- Justin:

and that was very effective for us, like back in the early days of Google ads. not so much social media then, but definitely Google ads. We were pretty good at that at getting new customers and we didn’t give up on the, um, direct approach to the door, the door knocking style, style stuff as well. That was how we grew that business. very different now in the world of business sales where we need to attract, first of all, we need to attract vendors. So people want to sell their business and there’s many different ways to go about that. do you want me to go into depth with that, that sort of approach that we’re doing now or?

03:46- Terry: 

look, so I know you’ve worked with countless owners looking to sell, um, what’s some of the biggest misconceptions business owners have when they start thinking about selling their business?

03:56- Justin:

Um, I think probably one of the biggest ones is how long it’s going to take. Um, the average time market for a business is about nine months. Uh, and the even darker side of that is that only one in three, on average actually sell. So you’ve got a less than 50 percent chance of selling a business. Um, I’d say this, sorry, go on.

04:17- Terry:

What do you think the major factors are that determine whether a business sells or not?

04:21- Justin: 

Well, probably the biggest one is the price. And that’s probably the second misconception of an owner too, is what their business is actually worth. And sometimes that’s come from, they might’ve got information from their accountant or from another third party source that, you know, X, Y, Z businesses sell for this multiple, but there’s a lot of complexity to what, um, actually makes a business’s market price.

04:40- Terry: 

We call it. Um, quite often it’s just the industry you’re in. Like it could be a time in your industry where the demand has dropped off. Um, the classic one is probably on the small end of the scale is the news agency, which was in demand 10 years ago. Now it’s very difficult to find a buyer for that sort of business. Um, the flip side, you get a business like childcare, which has just grown in demand over the last five years in particular, and now they’re very, very, very hot. So if one of those comes to market, we’ll get, hundreds of inquiries for that, and they’ll transact pretty quickly. It’s interesting.

05:14- Justin:

yeah, I’d say the other big factor, what makes it sell off the bat is the um, level of dependence on the owner.

05:21- Justin: 

So if the business is depending too much on the owner, it’s very hard to find a buyer who’s basically willing to step into those big shoes. Um, the less dependent it is, the more potential buyers there are definitely opens up the field to investor buyers or, um, Yeah. Strategic buyers, which is other companies that are acquiring your business.

05:40- Justin:

It

05:42- Terry: 

was one of the things I learned early on in my career, in my ex corporate career, the importance of systems and processes in a business. And, you know, there’s one piece of advice I can give any business owners, particularly anyone that’s looking just to have half of a life outside of their business, Businesses and processes, I get systems and processes in place.

06:02- Terry:

Don’t let it be 100 percent relying on you. If they’ve got to call you every 10 minutes to ask a question or you’ve got to make all of the decisions, it’s not really a business. It’s not much more than a

06:10- Terry:

a job that

06:10- Terry: 

right. Exactly right. That’s a job with probably twice the hours of a normal job as well for some people. So yeah, definitely getting that reliance down on you is critical. You mentioned the timing, uh, timing in terms of the, well, I’ll call it the economic cycle or demand cycle potentially. Um, but what about timing within a business cycle itself? Can you walk us through what’s the perfect timing looks like for a business sale and how business owners should know when they’re ready to sell?

06:38- Justin: 

Sure. Let’s say, I mean, ideally you’d be looking two, or three years out on the horizon to sell your business. That just gives you time to put certain things in place that are not half baked when you go to market. Um, things are simple. Well, that first one I mentioned, getting your time. upskilled so they can actually tag on some of your role.

06:55- Justin: 

That can take a while. You can’t do that overnight. Getting the procedures sorted out. Um, making sure you’re not taking the foot off the pedal as well. So a lot of business owners, particularly the older ones in that 60 plus age group, their business value can drop quite markedly in those last few years because they’re just not putting effort in.

07:15- Justin: 

And if your sales are trending south and your profits are trending south, it’s a lot harder to sell your business. Um, so making sure you’re still, you know, doing your marketing, um, staying growth focused, keeping your team motivated, all that sort of thing is also important. Um, and that two year period also means you can get your financials sorted out.

07:34- Justin: 

There’s issues with your balance sheet. Um, it’s, it’s amazing how many businesses come to us thinking they’re ready to go to market with. Big holes in the balance sheet or, you know, um, assets that are on there, which they sold three years ago. And when you go to market the buyers and the buyers accountants, they’re ruthless.

07:52- Justin: 

They will tear your financials to shreds. So everything needs to be tidy for that sort of thing. And that can take a year or two just to clean that out without damaging you on it from a tax perspective as well.

08:02- Terry:

If you’re not starting with the end in mind of selling, then it’s not necessarily that you’re keeping all of these things intact and in the order that they should be in

08:11- Justin: 

Yeah, possibly. Although I’d say most of them are just generally good business practice. I mean, having a balance sheet that’s actually realistic is a good thing to have anyway. So, um, and as

08:20- Justin: 

well, being growth focused, it’s actually amazing how many of them are good business practice.

08:24- Terry: 

So what are some surprising factors that make or break a business sale? Are there things that most owners overlook when they’re prepared to exit? You mentioned the, the financials and the, and the processes. Anything else beyond that?

08:36- Justin: 

It’s leases if you own the property as well. In fact, those sort of business sales are really red hot right now. So it’s business with freehold. A lot of buyers look for that. But if you are on a lease, which the majority of business owners are leasing, um, making sure you’ve got a good period of tenure there still, like ideally 5 to 10 years still in options.

08:55- Justin: 

Um, we have a lot that come to us and they haven’t actually taken up the option on their lease, so theoretically they’re on a month to month and they don’t even realise it. Which means the

09:03- Justin:

buyer coming in there, there’s a lot of implications there. One is that they can’t get, um, finance if there’s not a lease in place, so the buyer can’t finance the sale.

09:11- Justin: 

two is you potentially could actually lose your premise as if the buyers clued up, they could directly approach your landlord, realizing you’re not on a lease and just offer to pay more money and you could be out the door. It doesn’t happen very often.

09:23- Justin: 

There’s a risk for the vendor. So making sure your lease is in place, um, kind of related to that is around your DAs.

09:30- Justin: 

So making sure you’re approved to do what you’re doing. Again, it’s amazing how many businesses don’t have that in place. And it doesn’t actually get found out until the, the crunchy end of the sale when the, the buyer’s lawyer is looking at all the details and they realize that the business that’s operating there is not approved. And that can derail us for sure.

09:49- Terry: 

I can imagine It would imagine that you get to a point in the final stages of a sale, almost cracking the champagne, and then find out that you don’t, you’re not, you know, you’re not ticking the box boxes for

09:58- Terry: 

regulatory approval.

10:00- Terry: 

It’d be a, it’d be a

10:00- Justin: 

Yeah. Lawyers generally can be, um, they can be sale breakers, um, even the vendor lawyer. So if you, a lot of our vendors will use the lawyer that they’ve used for family matters or, um, yeah, non commercial matters. And those

10:14- Justin: 

lawyers can often, um, be quite obstructive to the sale. Like they’ll dig their

10:18- Justin: 

heels in over points that really don’t matter.

10:20- Justin: 

Um, like, for me, for the vendor, it’s all about getting out the door and getting the money. But this, the lawyer of the vendor will often present problems that just demotivate the buyer, um, and get tangled up. And if the, if the momentum of the sale goes, if the sale can fall apart over an issue which is of no importance to the vendor at all. It’s just a legal

10:42- Justin: 

tangle that the lawyer wants to get involved with. So making sure your lawyer has,

10:45- Justin:

so you’ll find a lawyer will, will get tangled up in even something like restraint of trade where the owner’s retiring and the buyer might want a pretty tough restraint of trade in there, which the owner really didn’t care about, but their lawyer will suddenly think it’s, it’s unfair. requirement and they’ll fight on that point and then the buyer starts thinking, well, hang on, maybe this guy isn’t retiring. Maybe he’s actually going to start up in two years time and that

11:11- Justin:

just take off track unnecessarily. Yeah.

11:15- Terry: 

to bring doubt into the mind of the buyer and as soon as that happens then there’s a, there’s an issue. Yeah, interesting. The current economic landscape is shifting pretty rapidly. Um, how are you seeing these changes impact business valuations and exit strategies, particularly for those small to medium businesses?

11:32- Justin: 

Yeah. That’s usually in phase with the smaller mediums now. So there’s a bit of lack of confidence, but it’s not as bad as people think. Actually, there’s plenty of buyers still around. Um, they’re a bit more financially So they’re digging a bit deeper into the financials. Um, probably a year or two ago, there’s still excuses, post COVID lockdown, et cetera, where the financials didn’t really mean that much.

11:53- Justin: 

It was more about what are you doing right now? Um, those days are gone now. So people are looking at the three years and really drilling down hard on that. Um, but generally buyer demand is there. There’s still some sectors that aren’t, um, aren’t seeing a lot of demand. And they’re actually ones, they’re more of your, more of that buyer job type business where. The problem there is that we’re not seeing any, any redundancies in the broader economy right now. So typically those, you know, 50 year old guys who got a redundancy package were great, a great source of buyers for small businesses. They had money and they didn’t have a job. So they’re perfect, but they’re not around.

12:29- Justin: 

So that, that space is not being filled. So if you’re in that bracket, it can be hard to find a buyer. On the flip side, the investor buyers, there’s a lot of them around. So these are guys who’ve got. Yeah, I mean, plus dollars to invest. They’ve got a pretty strict are I looking for around 40%? Normally they want the business very tidy.

12:49- Justin: 

Um, yeah, ideally under management, a lot of demand from that side. And then in between there is that strategic buyer, which is a business existing business looking to grow their business by buying on the business. And that’s pretty healthy right now, especially industrial businesses.

13:06- Terry: 

Okay. Interesting. So that’s to be looking at existing businesses to bring on complimentary business that might expand either their offering, their service offering to their existing customer base or potentially a new customer base for their, for their

13:19- Justin: 

Yeah, correct. Either one of those ones could be the way to go. Or even in some cases they want, I mentioned before, the business with the free hold premises. Quite often you’ll find a strategic buyer that wants that space. Um, industrial property right now is really hard to get in our region anyway, so we’ve had a couple of big sales where they’ve bought the business and the property but their main attraction was the property.

13:40- Justin: 

But they kept the business going as well.

13:42- Terry: 

Right. Right. Yeah. That’s, that’s, that’s interesting. the areas that you’ve mentioned, is there anywhere that really stands out as a particular spike in interest at the moment?

13:52- Justin: 

Laundries. I didn’t mention that before.

13:56- Justin:

Laundry

13:56- Terry: 

No,

13:57- Justin:

huge right now. So I’d say of our industry sectors, probably childcare and laundry would be the top two by far in terms of when we list one of those businesses, we get hammered with inquiries. Um, a lot of the laundry spike is, um, uh, it’s a little bit artificial way because it’s, it’s been. Spiked by, um, podcasts, primarily funny enough, a lot of podcasts around investing in passive business, and laundry laundromats are seen as a passive business. Now, when you get a laundry business, you find out that 95 are not actually laundromats. They’re, they involve staff still, um, we listed and we get overwhelmed with inquiries for that.

14:39- Terry: 

And quite often the buyer will come from that base. They were looking for a laundromat. They realize that there’s this other sector, which is not quite as unstaffed but can still be pretty good financial returns. it staffed and did deliveries and pickups

14:52- Terry: 

and consumables and all of those sort of things that, you know, yet from actually running a business. I mean, not necessarily potentially as complex as some, but it’s, it’s a, it is a same industry, but a fast step from simply having some equipment that, you know, you’re managing the electricity supply and catching, grabbing the cash out of.

15:08- Terry: 

So.

15:09- Justin: 

Yeah.

15:10- Terry: 

Interesting. I look, you’ve worked closely with business owners for years. What’s one story of a business exit that particularly stands out to you and what lessons can others, others that want to exit learn from that?

15:23- Justin: 

Um, it’s also a good question, Terry. So I’ve got to just pick out a good one for you now. Um, I’ve the one that’s kind of the most iconic for me is, uh, the Australian listens to your podcast. Probably know the Big Marino, which is up in Goldman. Um, it’s a. giant sheet basically, which has a, well, a gift and fashion shop in the bottom, which is what we sold. Um, that one just stands out for me mainly because it is quite iconic, but, um, we also just the process there, they had a massive inventory. Like their stock levels were the businesses probably valued around 250, 000. The stock was 400, 000. So you can imagine

16:01- Justin: 

that just changes the equation a lot for potential buyers, because they’re still looking for that same return on investment for their whole investment.

16:07- Justin: 

Um, so part of that process was managing that stock level down in a way that didn’t actually damage the business trading, but just making sure it wasn’t as high. Um, I think in the end we got it half what it was at the start. And, um, then that one had to just find a buyer that was, see the buyer there was probably a different category, which is we call it the romantic buyer, which is a, an owner operator that just wants, they’ve got a dream to buy a business. And it just ticked their boxes on that level. They’re a local resident. They’ll school teachers, career changes, um, actually not in from Australia, they’re English people and it’s for the boxes. They were great to deal with. Um, it actually went quite smoothly. And then it was the longest stock take I’ve ever been involved in.

16:48- Terry:

It took a week to count all those Ugg boots and, uh, fluffy sheep. And, and koala key rings.

16:54- Justin: 

earrings, the works. Yeah. It was a long stock today.

16:57- Terry: 

Yeah.

16:58- Terry: 

So why do you think the inventory levels were so high in the first instance? I mean, obviously the cash flow must have been reasonably positive and strong in that business. So profitability, I’m assuming, was strong in that business, um, to be able to carry so much inventory. But the flip side, was it? And I, you know, don’t want to get into too many details here, but there’s a whole host of reasons why inventory is so hard.

17:19- Terry: 

Was it laziness? Was it buying opportunistically, you know, larger volumes for lower pricing, that type of thing where, how do you think the inventory crept up to that? Or was it just really not managing it?

17:28- Justin: 

Um, I think it was more to do with the range. They had a big range and they were very supportive of their suppliers. So I think they would, they’d probably been on a limb a bit there. They were stretching themselves just to ensure that the stock, a long, a long ordering cycle as well. So they have to order each season of the fashion items as well.

17:43- Justin: 

Um, and things like UGG boots, where you’ve got to have every size, you know, that, that buys out pretty quickly. Um, you’ve got a few different brands and you’ve got every size and every model. It did buy it that way. I think it was largely just the nature of the business. And maybe a little bit of, um, quite a few businesses were like this post COVID, but they had the supply chain issues back in 2021 2022. They’ve now gone a bit the other way where they get, they have this buffer of stock, but I think it’s time to start bringing that down. You know, it’s, those days

18:14- Justin: 

are gone and just bring it back to normal levels now.

18:18- Terry:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, it was, um, a very interesting time when you had the logistics, the issues with logistics and supply not being available. One of our clients is, uh, sells shipping containers. And you would, you would think with everything that was happening, but it just dried up. They literally, I mean, they went from buying 2000 shipping containers a month to zero being available.

18:40- Terry: 

There was just none available coming into this part of the

18:42- Terry: 

Southern Hemisphere was, uh, was, was crazy. Look, having been both a business owner and exit specialist. Um, what’s one piece of advice you wish someone had given you earlier in your career?

18:56- Justin: 

That’s a good question. I think probably just that, um, maybe that real focus on. Being on top of your financials, like every day. Um, I still see so many business owners now who don’t know what’s happening in this is even some larger ones too. I’ve got a commercial bakery at the moment, which is a turnover close to 5 million and just a real lack of awareness of where they’re at profitability wise.

19:21- Justin: 

And it’s quite startling. I think back to my early days there, I was, you know, I wasn’t like I didn’t care about it at all, but I wasn’t watching as closely as I could and just making sure you’re always growing. Profit as well as your sales. I was at my face was more of a marketing type focus. That was my, my background. So I was always looking at growing revenue. I probably didn’t look at the bottom line as much as I should have.

19:45- Terry: 

Do you think, what do you think the reason for that is? Why would someone that’s got like a 5 million turnover not be closely well enough knowing their, knowing their numbers?

19:56- Justin: 

I think it’s like financials are very rarely the thing that’s screaming at you. Like it’s, you know, if you’ve got staff issues or customer issues or equipment issues, they’re all things that scream at you, whereas the financials, you know, Going backward then your financials aren’t screaming at you, but you’re missing opportunities definitely if you’re not watching that closely and you know You might not be looking at product lines that are actually losing you money that kind of thing so No,

20:26- Terry:

a certain background of the operator or business owner, um, that tends to be, have less of an idea of their financials than others? And, and,

20:35- Justin: 

think no not particularly I think it’s just across the board It’s probably just a it’s just an individual aspect of someone who’s more I guess if you’re a founder and you’ve come into your business because you, you’re good at doing X, Y, Z. So say the baker, you, you’re a baker, you’re good at making cakes. The financials are a bit of an afterthought and you’ve grown probably just because your product’s good and your service is good, but then you’re not making as much money as you could because you’re not watching your, your costs closely.

21:03- Terry:

you know, I think that, that in, in my mind, I think the perspective of being a practitioner that moves, becomes, then becomes a business owner. Often you’re not always aware. You don’t have the financial acumen to be aware of it. As long as there’s cash in the bank, then it’s not the, it’s not the bank that’s screaming at

21:22- Justin: 

Yeah, that’s right. And I think so often too, the, the, the accountant you engage is so critical. You have an accountant that can actually. Provide your advice beyond interview tax. It can make so much difference. Um, I’ll go back to that bakery example. I actually had a lot of bakeries in the last year that I sold.

21:39- Justin: 

So two different

21:41- Justin: 

bakeries. One is, well, one is still for sale, but we’re closed hopefully. That’s the one that’s an older owner. Um, yeah, fantastic guy, but hasn’t had his eyes on the, um, the financials, uh, particularly in the last couple of years. And that’s been the main problem with selling. On the flip side, I sold one that was, um. Like a quarter of the revenue and five times the profit. And it was run by a 30 year old who she’d started baking from home. Um, she wasn’t big into the numbers herself, but she had an excellent accountant. Her accountant was so on board and just had guided her from home baker too, she had a double shop frontage, um, still kept her focused on the product and service, but her accountant was there supporting her and just making sure that everything was in order.

22:28- Justin: 

And when it came to selling that that business, those financials that got vendor, the vendor, sorry. So I got the buyers finance, um, basically about a million dollars, which I would not have expected. But the numbers are so good and so tidy. There was no question marks on anything. That’s what got that deal home.

22:44- Justin:

Yeah,

22:48- Terry: 

components to a deal. You know, the complexities can be endless. I think, you know, if I had a bucket of cash and I was going to go and buy a business. And I didn’t need financing. I’d be much rather looking at the lower profitable business than the higher profitable business, because I think the upside there is, is, uh, is so

23:05- Justin:

that’s the one.

23:06- Terry: 

Um, but

23:07- Terry: 

I,

23:07- Justin: 

We mentioned under management before, like the man for under management businesses is crazy. Like people want that management to in place and they’ll pay a premium, like a massive premium for that. Yeah. I keep thinking the same thing. Why don’t people buy them, not under management, and then transition them? Because I think you make a lot of money on that. The value of that business would double in two years if you got a good manager in there and maybe it’s in the same team that you bring in, do the tidy up, install a decent manager operationally, and then put on the market. I think make some money actually.

23:39- Terry: 

you know, the, I think the biggest challenge there is finding people with the acumen to do that.

23:44- Justin: 

Possibly true. Yeah.

23:46- Terry:

You know, you’ve got to have a level of, of business acumen. You, you probably can’t think of really if it’s not under management and it is pretty reliant on the owner, um, then you’re really going to probably want someone with some industry acumen experience as well.

24:03- Terry: 

And so, you know, getting those two things coupled together with someone then that would have the desire to, you know, work for an investor and go and do this as a, As a, as you know, sort of a role, it’d be a fantastic business model. If you could put a team together, I like a mini corporate team together to help come in by the businesses that aren’t under management, transition them, and flip them out to be, uh, you know, have everybody on a percentage.

24:25- Terry:

It would be, uh,

24:28- Justin:

a bit of a person in the business too. I see this a lot where you’ll find someone who’s not necessarily in the management team, but who’s operationally knows their stuff. Quite often will come up when we’re doing inspections with potential buyers, someone will step up amongst the staff and be very helpful. And you walk away going with a year or two of training, that person could run this show. And I think that’s what a lot of the, a lot of the founder owners in particular just miss that person. They didn’t realize that they’ve got someone. You know, a diamond in the rough there, which you actually step up and do Their role and maybe not as well as them from day one But if they give them a year or so they could do the job

25:04- Terry: 

and in some cases potentially even are doing the job unbeknownst to the

25:08- Terry: 

founder, they think they’re doing all the work and, and, driving

25:10- Terry: 

all of the outcomes. But it’s

25:12- Terry: 

actually is somebody else in the

25:13- Justin: 

We do we do have a lot of owners that they’re there at their business, you know, 50 60 hours a week But when you drill down to what are you actually doing? They’re not actually doing much They’re not contributing as much as they think they are You But then the buyer looking at that will go, no, they’re working 60 hours a week.

25:28- Justin:

We can’t, we can’t buy this business. So like the advice is always, stay home, don’t come in.

25:36- Terry: 

Look for business owners thinking about an eventual exit but not ready to sell immediately. Um, you’ve sort of covered off on this a little bit. What would be the three things that they can start doing today to prepare for a successful exit in the future?

25:50- Justin: 

Yeah, I think definitely at the top of that list is still making yourself dispensable. Um, and that will take a bit of time. Um,

25:57- Justin: 

managing your throat, upskilling your team, delegating where you can. Getting assistance and process in place. Um, the second one was the financials. Just, I think, getting your accountant on board and if they can’t stretch there, you should really look around for a new accountant.

26:11- Justin: 

If they can’t be available to actually help you get your assistance, get your own financials in order, show you the opportunities, coach you a bit as well, and there are accountants who can do that. They’re definitely out there. Don’t, don’t accept a mediocre accountant. That’s my, my

26:26- Justin: 

advice there.

26:27- Terry:

yep. I think there’s a big, big differential between an accountant and a bookkeeper and there’s many accountants that operate as

26:33- Terry: 

bookkeepers effectively doing your financials and your tax

26:36- Terry:

returns and so forth. I don’t know. It will help bookkeepers work more effectively. An accountant should be your

26:42- Terry:

strategic advisor, and if that’s not coming, then yeah, you really do need to be looking for someone else.

26:46- Terry: 

I agree 100

26:47- Justin: 

In their defense, in their accountant’s defense, sometimes they can do that, but the business owners never ask them to do it or never want them to pay the extra few thousand dollars a year to do it. So, it is possible.

26:58- Terry:

Yeah, or, or, and, and, or, or perhaps, um, you know, the accountant has been proactive and has offered that advice, but the business owner thinks that they’d know better anyway,

27:09- Justin: 

That’s true as well. Yeah, that’s actually a good point. Getting advice and not taking it. Um, yeah, so we’ve actually started working now with a, um, even though we do advise businesses a bit on getting ready for sale, the amount of time we can put into that is quite limited because we’re focused on transactions, um, taking business to market.

27:25- Justin:

So we started working with, an actual exit consultant now as well. So not actually employed by us, but we’re outsourced that role to, um, to him. And he definitely knows his stuff. He’s had multiple exits himself. So he’s got a good system

27:39- Justin: 

in place. And I think getting someone like that on board if your accountant can’t go there, it might be better to look at that option where you get an actual exit advisor over that 12 months to just get everything right for you and work with you, you know, and actually help you get through that process. And probably the third one is just around, it’s a bit boring, but around your compliance, like your lease and your licenses, your insurances, contracts. I mean, so few businesses have contracts in place with suppliers or customers. And a lot of buyers really value that. And, um, personally, I think they’re overvalued because to me, any contract is only worth, yeah, if you, if you stuff up as a, as a supplier, someone, you’ll find that you won’t have the contract anymore.

28:21- Justin: 

So it doesn’t,

28:23- Justin: 

they think, um, so they still look for it. Buyers are looking for contracts. So if you can get your key customers on some form of contract, it definitely makes you more, that’s value to the business for sure.

28:36- Terry: 

So, so they were, um, get your, make yourself dependable, dispensable. So effectively have your business processes in place and have, have it managed as a managed business,

28:48- Terry: 

um, find the right accountant to make sure that you, the numbers are on right and a strategic

28:54- Terry: 

accountant, so to

28:55- Justin: 

Yep.

28:57- Terry: 

And, um, the third one was about making sure that you’ve, you’ve got all of your formalities in place, your contracts and agreements.

29:06- Terry: 

Um, after,

29:08- Justin: 

Yeah.

29:10- Terry: 

like to throw a fourth one in there, and I think don’t use your family lawyer. Go and find someone that’s actually a specialist in these transactions and that has the same objectives as

29:21- Terry: 

you. And that is to get to that

29:22- Justin: 

mean that,

29:23- Terry:

of an exiting cash.

29:24- Justin: 

your lawyer can be right at the end. I mean, you actually don’t need a lawyer until, basically until you’ve found the buyer. Yeah. So we’ll, we’ll find the buyer, negotiate the deal, get our heads of agreement together, and then we’ll approach the lawyer and say, okay, here’s the deal, we need a contract.

29:38- Justin: 

And that’s your lawyer’s role. Just make the contract in a way that protects you and gets a deal done. And I think a lot of, um, a lot of business owners are a bit in awe of their lawyer. Like they feel like their lawyers have the right to tell them what to do. No, they’re actually, they’re working for you. Yeah, you tell them what to do. You want the sale done? Tell them to get the sale done. Yeah. And, the best lawyers will respond really well to that too. Hmm.

30:01- Terry: 

Look, people need to realize that the lawyer’s responsibility is to manage one of their very deep seeded responsibilities is to manage the risk and advise you of the worst possible case scenario. And, uh, you know, I’ve seen a, seen a case play out in the last couple of years where, um, there was a full agreement in place.

30:22- Terry: 

Everybody was smiles, hugs, and kisses and, you know, all handshakes had taken place. And then a lawyer, a family lawyer got involved. And the whole thing just absolutely fell into a huge mess for that simple reason that they spoke everything in worst possible case scenarios instead of presenting, you know, um, what a reasonable man would expect out of this, uh, this outcome.

30:46- Terry: 

And it was just a shocking thing. It was an eye opener for me in all of my years and dealing with contracts and acquisitions and integrations that that, um, transaction and the way that lawyer handled himself was, uh, was a was a shock to me. It was enough to make sure that, uh, it’s on the radar in future in terms

31:03- Terry:

of, you know, when you’re trying to get a contract over the line.

31:07- Terry: 

Would you really leave it till the last minute? I mean, I mean, unless you know, or you’ve got, uh, um, lawyers that are already dealing with these types of transactions. Um, if, if a business owner was looking at exiting, it’d be a conversation That you’d at least want to have with them, wouldn’t it?

31:24- Terry: 

At early stages in the sale to flag that, look, we need to get a lawyer, but these are some things you need to be aware of with lawyers.

31:32- Justin: 

Yes. From our point of view, we would have a discussion. We wouldn’t engage the lawyer until late in the process though. I don’t think a lawyer has

31:37- Justin: 

any value in the process until the contract needs to be made. As opposed to

31:41- Justin: 

accountants where I think it’s the opposite. The accountants can get involved way back.

31:45- Justin: 

And they should be involved before it even goes to market.

31:48- Terry: 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree a hundred percent with both of those. Um, so what do you think in your opinion is more critical, getting the highest valuation possible for your business or finding the right buyer? Yeah,

32:00- Terry: 

Um, I would say find the right buyer because quite often the right buyer can throw that valuation or appraisal out the window. You know, if you get someone who’s a strategic buyer who can see value there that you know, your accountant or your valuer I didn’t see, um, it can make that valuation meaningless. Um, you know, on the flip side if you can’t find the right buyer, likewise whatever value is put in the business business. It’s also meaningless if no one wants it. I agree. There’s a sales, not a sale until the money’s in the

32:27- Justin:

Exactly right. And

32:29- Terry:

It’s all about the buyer.

32:30- Justin: 

it’s different to a house where, you know, I think almost every house has multiple possible buyers. Some businesses, there might only be one buyer. That’s the reality. There’s some very niche businesses out there and the fit just might not be there for anyone. You know, that’s why some don’t sell.

32:45- Justin:

There’s just no one right now who wants to buy that business, whatever the price. Um, but.

32:50- Terry: 

So what advice do you give to those people, for instance, that are in a very niche business and really would want to sell but the market’s just not right at the moment, there’s no buyers?

33:00- Justin: 

That’s a good question. Yeah, so it might be, that’s the one I might have to look more internally. If you’ve got an employer that could step into the role, possibly become a partner with you, maybe take over over time, that could be an option there. Someone understands the business. There are some where they just won’t find a, won’t find a buyer at all. That’s, it’s not, you know, not an unnatural thing for a business just to run its course and close the doors.

33:25- Terry: 

Mm

33:26] Justin: 

be messy as well, especially if you’ve got a lease, you’ve got to make good with the premises. Um, So sometimes you are better off selling at a very low price rather than closing the doors. And that’s,

33:35- Justin: 

that’s a tough one for some businesses. Like we’ll have a business on the market for two years and the vendor has to realize that that’s the likely scenario. Take a price that they find offensive or close the doors. I think almost always you’re better off taking the price that you find offensive because The expenses in closing your doors can be quite high.

33:57- Terry:

Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s not, it’s not business as usual is not operating. Yeah, for sure. Interesting, isn’t it? It must be heartbreaking for some business owners, blood, sweat and tears into a business for years and years. Um, and then find that it’s really not sustainable.

34:11- Justin:

It definitely is. I mean, for me, being an ex business owner myself, um, I tend to live, live each sale as though it’s mine. So I find that, that, when, when that outcome happens, which, you know, that’s the reality, it does happen. It’s tough. It’s definitely the hardest part of this job is when you, you reach the end of that, that, how long their patients last and realize it’s not going to happen. Um, but.

34:33- Terry: 

I guess the flip side is that they’ve enjoyed the benefits of that business for as long as they have. I mean, that’s the

34:39- Terry: 

that’s the flip side as well. It’s, there’s a huge difference in, you know, being successful business owner compared to, uh, an employee difference each. You know, there’s horses for courses.

34:49- Terry: 

Some people are better in, in, uh, you know, prefer employees as opposed to business owners. But if you’ve been a business owner, whether it’s sustainable or not, you know, it’s a good achievement to have done it for as long as you’ve done it and run a successful business.

35:00- Justin: 

It’s very true. I gave him that stat of, you know, 80 percent fail in the first two years. So basically if you’ve lasted two years, you’re in the top 20%. That’s a good, good step. And if you do sell, it’s a great success. If you sell at or around the price you’re hoping for, that is, you’ve done magnificently well.

35:14- Justin: 

It’s a great achievement.

35:17- Terry: 

Absolutely. Absolutely. Actually talking about two years and more. We celebrated 10 years. We’re celebrating 10 years this year. We’ve got metrics. We’ve got 10 years up this year. It was a bit of a milestone

35:26- Terry: 

for

35:27- Justin: 

got to say, you know, in a high change tech world, it’s amazing how much your offering has remained constant. Like with all that’s going around you, like it’s still. Ticks the boxes for me. That’s a, it still works just as well as it did at the start. Well, it better than did at the start. That’s a, yeah,

35:45- Terry: 

That’s right. That’s right. Well, I think it’s because there’s sure as much as technology changes for a transaction to take place. We’re not at the stage yet where AI sales people are talking to AI procurement people. So it’s not AI to AI. I’m sure at some stage there will be some products that get to

36:02- Terry: 

that level. Um, but generally to buy and sell, there’s a, you know, person to person transaction happening in there somewhere. Even if AI has done all of the homework and makes a recommendation, there’s still a person that’s going to make the decision in there for quite some time yet.

36:15- Justin: 

So,

36:15- Justin: 

we were using

36:16- Justin: 

chat, chat box, chat box back in probably seven or eight years ago with the corporate catering business. And I thought then they did the job better than what they do now. Like I feel, I thought then there was a novelty around them, which actually, if you did it well, which we had a pretty good service going there and we would jump in when required, but I think now the market appetite for chatbots is actually lower than what it was then.

36:40- Justin: 

The market for real people is definitely better. Yeah,

36:45- Terry: 

Well, it’s interesting you should say that. I think that what’s changed a lot, is expectations. So when the chatbots first came around, there’s an expectation, Oh, this is new. It’s going to be clunky. I know, you know, not to have my expectations set too high. These days the expectations are that if it’s not going to answer my questions properly, I don’t want to

37:04- Terry: 

talk to it full stop.

37:06- Terry: 

No, I won’t give it any leeway. It’s interesting. Even in our own business now, we still see, I mean, there was a big uptick in through, um, you know, 20 through to 22. An uptick of people asking and wanting clarification, whether it was a chatbot or a person that we’re talking to that jumped fairly dramatically through that

37:21- Terry: 

time. Um, but even now we see conversations that will start very, Commanding demanding and staccato and then when they realize that there’s a human on the other side of it Oh, it all comes down and tones down and it’s much more conversational. It’s uh, it’s fascinating to watch You can say that person thought they were talking to a chatbot, but then

37:40- Justin:

We had one of our chatmetrics chats two nights ago, which is exactly that. It’s actually the longest one I’ve seen where the person online was, Oh, you’re not a person, you’re a bot. And like, your chat person handed it really well. She said, No, I’m a person. Would you rather talk to a bot? You’re not like that. Yeah, they

37:59- Terry: 

get a bot for you if that’s what you want

38:00- Justin: 

ended up, he ended up giving us a lot of information actually, like it was a good, one of the better chats I’ve seen.

38:06- Terry:

That’s good. That’s good. That’s good. Look, um the Market, uh, in the local Illawarra and Sydney, um, what unique challenges and opportunities do businesses have in, in the region when it comes to selling? Is there anything unique for that particular

38:23- Justin:

Well, in the Illawarra, we’re definitely seeing, we’re quite an industrial area here. Like there’s a big steelworks and a lot of support, small businesses around that.

38:31- Terry: 

I know that steelworks pretty well, I worked for them for 25years Oh, the broader organization.

38:36- Justin: 

Yeah.

38:37- Justin: 

well that’s, um, that’s going pretty well. Um, I think there’s plenty of opportunities around that and plenty of demand actually. So there’s a lot of acquisitions happening between businesses there. Um. The Sydney area, I think there’s struggles with, well, probably everywhere at the moment. Retail is tough like that’s a hard business to sell because no one’s, not no one, very few businesses are doing better than they were five years ago. So it’s a hard sell. Hospitality is strong in both regions. I think there’s, you know, Sydney CBD, we’re not involved that much in that area, but I think it’s a bit tough in that space still. Whereas Wollongong CBD is back to normal like it’s actually pretty good in here. Um, we’d love some more listings in this area. Actually, it’s actually hard to get business to sell in an area, which is a good problem to have in a way.

39:22- Justin:

Um,

39:23- Terry: 

It’s a good, it’s a very good sign of a healthy

39:25- Terry: 

economy. I guess to the next stage when it’ll be the cycle of, um, you know, you mentioned before about redundancies for the, the owner operator, or, you know, buying a, buying a job

39:37- Terry:

type businesses, you know, you see with these large organizations that are particular areas reliant on, um, you know, the steel works you mentioned has been through that.

39:48- Terry: 

And so there’s a lot of stability, I think, from an employment and economic perspective in that region there, which just creates a stability and probably a, it depends on more of an age, I think of the, of the business owners and where they’re at in terms of what they want to do in their next steps, as opposed to, you know, I mean, look, it’s always a good thing.

40:09- Terry: 

I always say, you know, um, the time to get out is when you’re riding on a high.

40:13- Justin: 

Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. That’s

40:14- Justin: 

usually probably the age of the business owners too, because that’s a big change that’s going to happen in the next 10 years. The amount of baby boomer owners that are still hanging in there, it’s extraordinary. You know, they all need to transact at some stage. Most of them don’t have a transition plan with family, which probably was not their expectation 10 or 20 years ago.

40:32- Justin: 

But their kids have gone and become professionals and they don’t want to take over the fabrication business or whatever. So there’s a big market of potential sellers there. Um. On the flip side, the buyers, the younger buyers are emerging too. They, they’ve got an interesting entrepreneurial flare about them.

40:48- Justin: 

The, the Gen Zs are definitely, um, different attitude to it all. Um, I, I think there’s a few mismatches there and what they expect outta business and what the reality is. But yeah, they’ll learn, they’re definitely active.

41:01- Terry: 

one of the things. I’ve become aware of lately is this concept, and it’s been promoted in a couple of areas. But this concept of potentially buying a business for zero up front,

41:12- Justin: 

Yeah,

41:14- Terry: 

and it just came to my mind then, when I was thinking about it in terms of those businesses that are going to actually shut their doors.

41:20- Terry:

You know, there’s an opportunity to match a potential buyer. Um, somebody’s been hanging in there for two years. They can’t find a buy a full stop at any price. Then, you know, your comment about, you know, selling at a lower price might be better than maybe vendor financing, even potentially to have them, uh, you know, show the new owners the rope, so to speak, over a 12 or 24 month.

41:42- Terry: 

Payout period, you know, still might be a better situation than shutting the doors. And I guess we come back to that comment. Then we’ll, you know, ideally, if you could set up a little corporate rocket team that just go in, set up their whole focus is to set up business processes. I don’t even really have to know the industry.

41:59- Terry: 

These things need to be done in a business marketing in this, the process in the

42:02- Terry: 

business, you know, customer service on the other side. And, um, if you get that set up and rocking and rolling, I think it would be a recipe for

42:11- Justin: 

Yeah, definitely, definitely. We’ve definitely seen a rise in the, um, zero upfront, um, inquiries. Uh, it’s a tough conversation with especially the older vendors. Who are very suspicious of that and like them, like not being tied to their business is a big priority. Like that’s, they’re ready to sell, they’re ready to go. And when they get that kind of offer coming in with a zero up front, we want you to stay around for two years. They really don’t like it. Like it’s actually, it’s a hard one to get past them. Um, yeah.

42:39- Terry:

I get it. I get it. And you know, the unfortunate situation or the unfortunate reality is that that’s the situation that they’ve built by not having the business fully managed and

42:49- Terry: 

fully, you know, not relied on them. So, yeah, it’s, uh, it’s one of those situations. My wife’s in the process at the moment. of putting a manager, well, she’s had a manager, a couple of managers in place, but finding the right manager is very difficult.

43:04- Terry: 

Um, and I think that, you know, that’s one of the challenges that holds business owners back. It’s okay to say, you know, get, just get a manager in. Well,

43:12- Justin: 

Yeah.

43:13- Terry: 

she’s on a third manager in four years now. And with a huge amount of effort for each one, um, you know, you’ll never find anyone that does everything the way

43:23- Terry: 

you do.

43:24- Terry: 

But you’ve just got to find someone that can run the business and look after the clients and deliver the results that you expect. And that’s, that’s been a real challenge to find. So she’s working through that at the moment with, um, with a good manager that’s in place

43:38- Terry: 

It’s been an interesting conversation that I’m pretty close to as well because of you know what she’s going through in her business of getting a manager in place. So

43:45- Terry: 

it’s it’s a challenge. It’s certainly not easy. That’s for sure. If there was a magic one team, that’s why I keep coming back to that point about it.

43:52- Terry: 

You know, if you could put together a crack team that would just come in and set it up and and move on, then that would be a

43:58- Justin: 

Yeah. Their main focus is getting it to a resale in two to three years. Um, I think that could be a good space to be in. And if, even if you’re left

44:05- Justin: 

behind a person and each one to be the ongoing manager, but you just get it tidied up, hire the right people, incentivize them and then move on to the next project.

44:13- Justin:

Absolutely. Justin. Look, that’s been an amazing conversation. Thank you. Um, how can we get in touch with you? People are interested and want to know more about whether it’s a an exit in your area or even just some advice on getting ready to exit a business. I mean, I know with your background, it’s not limited to any particular type or style or region.

44:32- Terry: 

You’ve got a depth of knowledge and experience that can really help

44:34- Terry: 

anybody that’s at an

44:35- Justin:

exit.

44:36- Justin:

Yeah. We’re happy to help any industry. In fact, every appraisal we do, for me, it’s part of our learning as well. We learn more about a new industry, a new business. So, yeah. We’re happy to investigate that. All our appraisals are free of charge, um, no obligation. So the best way to contact us probably either through LinkedIn or just emailing justin. bunt at mmj. com. au. So MMJ is the, is the organization I work for. There are quite a large real estate business has been going since 1960, um, began in Wollongong. Then I’ve got offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Perth, um, and Canberra as well. So they’re pretty much a national exposure, a lot of commercial focus.

45:12- Justin: 

We actually won the commercial agency of the year, um, just two weeks ago at the New South Wales real estate awards.

45:19- Terry: 

Yes, yes,

45:19- Terry: 

congratulations.

45:20- Justin: 

So that’s, that was the second time I’ve won that award up against all the big players from Sydney. Um, yeah, it’s a great company with a great range of experience and knowledge in property as well as business sales.

45:31- Justin: 

Um, I think we’re the only business sales team in our area. There’s four of us on the team that just do business sales. We don’t get involved with anything else. Uh, we’re very focused on that side of things. Um, yeah, very happy to help anyone who just needs advice about where to start even, because that’s often the first step can be the hardest. Uh, definitely would advise. You know, getting an appraisal, whether from us or someone else, just to find out where you’re actually at. Uh, it’s different for an evaluation, which is done by a valuer. It’s not quite as intense in a way, but at the same time, it’s more focused on what’s happening right now in the market. So I think a business broker generally will have a better idea of that. Um, you can do your online, you know, automatic ones, put your data in, but our ones generally take us about three or four days to, to grind through the numbers and actually look at where potential ad backs are, which is very hard to do on a, on a, uh, online drop your answers in here type thing. So better to get a customized one that actually understands a bit about your industry and where it’s at and your numbers.

46:31- Terry:

And when you do that, then you get a better insight in terms of potential areas that they’d need to, um, cover off on or, or, um, things to get ready for in terms of that, that exit as

46:41- Justin: 

well.

46:41- Justin: 

Definitely. Yeah. We can definitely give some, yeah, not, I wouldn’t say we’re, you know, you know, we skilled consultants. We’ll give you some tips there, a bit directions to go in and start the ball rolling there. We’ve had plenty of actually come to us and we’ve said, you know, you could listen now, but you’re probably gonna struggle to find a buyer. But if you go away and do X, Y, Z and come back in six months or a year with numbers like this, which is where you can get to, then this is where you’d sit in the market. We’re not afraid to do that.

47:07- Terry: 

Justin, are there any, any, um, books or literature or anything that you’d recommend that anyone that’s thinking about an exit should, uh, should have a read of?

47:15- Justin: 

There’s um, there’s a guy in America called Mac Lacky and he’s got a couple of books. Um, his business is called exit DNA. Uh, his resources are pretty good. We’re actually working with a consultant in Australia, um, who rolls out his program here. It helps businesses get from where they are to an exit. Um, I can’t remember the titles of his books, but he’s got a couple there, but his exit DNA platform is definitely worth checking out. He runs like a masterclass where you can sit, sit in a group with, um, experienced entrepreneurs and learn a lot of things from that as well. I like a lot of his angle. Um, he’s sold seven businesses himself. He’s done extremely well from

47:54- Justin: 

exit, so he understands it firsthand.

47:58- Terry: 

Okay, excellent. Um, look, I’ll grab those links and those titles off you via email after if you can, and we’ll put them in the, in the link down below for everybody to have a look at.

48:06- Justin:

Yeah, great.

48:09- Terry: 

Have I missed anything, Justin? Is there anything that I should have asked that I

48:11- Terry:

haven’t?

48:12- Justin: 

I think that’s about it. I think if you, my advice to anyone, I know a lot of your, your, um, listeners will be business owners, but it’s just to always have your business as ready to sell as possible. So put the things in place. Um, They’re generally just good business practice anyway. A lot of them will actually make you happier running your business.

48:28- Justin:

Like, if it’s less dependent on you, you’ll be happier as well probably. So do the stuff that you need to do so you’re ready to sell just in case something happens. You know, it could be a non business reason why you need to sell in a hurry. If you’re ready, it can make a very big difference to your exit outcome. So just be ready all the time. Um, don’t put it off. And, uh, that’s the best advice I can give any business owner really.

48:52- Terry:

Yeah, fantastic. I couldn’t agree more. I think that’s fantastic advice. Be ready. You never know whether it’s your own, uh, you know, non business related circumstances or the right buyer might

49:04- Terry: 

just come knocking on

49:05- Justin: 

You’re right. See, that’s a big part of that MacLucky training, the ExitDNA training. Exactly that. Be ready for that phone call. You know, it’s your, it might be your biggest competitor saying, we want to buy you, if everything’s in order. And if everything’s not in order, they won’t buy you. So, um, yeah.

49:23- Terry:

That’s exactly what’s happened to, uh, one of our clients three months ago. Um, two reasonably, uh, you large players, one very one four times bigger than the other. But, you know, they’ve both got good chunks of market share in a particular industry. Uh, this is in the U. S. And, um, the large one acquired the smaller one. Then all of a sudden they’ve got just the, you know, that beautiful environment of yes, sure, there’s synergies from the acquisition in terms of cost down because you’re bringing two businesses into one. Um, but the bigger focus for them is actually the broadened customer base and then the being able to upsell cross.

49:59- Terry: 

products into both of those customer bases. It’s, um, it really is. I mean, how to look at the acquisition or the transaction over the over the weekend, it’s going to be, um, you know, very, very good thing for that business for sure.

50:11- Justin: 

Hopefully your, um, your services can be spread across both as well.

50:15- Terry: 

Well, we’ll see. We’ll see. Fingers crossed. Um, I think they’ll certainly benefit from our services, whether they decide to continue them or not, then, uh, you know, that’s a, that’s a decision I hopefully I’ll get to help them make

50:25- Terry: 

It’s very early stages at this stage. So

50:28- Justin: 

Definitely. I think that’s covered it all, Terry. It was a good, good chat. Definitely, uh, I think you know, you know enough about business yourself. There were good insights there, which is good too. Good questions.

50:39- Terry: 

thanks, Justin. Appreciate that.

50:41- Justin: 

no problems.

50:43- Terry: 

Thanks for coming on the chat. We’ll

50:44- Justin: 

Great time.

50:44- Justin: 

Thanks, Terry. See ya.